Hey, Noah, how are you?
I’m good; how are you?
I’m good! I loved Greenberg.
Thanks so much! I’m glad to hear it.
It said in the credits that you and Jennifer Jason Leigh developed the story together.
Well, even though we share a story credit, it didn’t work as linearly as that. I’d started writing it and had had the idea of Greenberg and Florence in Los Angeles and many of the elements that turned out in the final movie, but I started writing this script and I showed it to her in a much rougher—I mean, I show her everything I work on anyway, and she’s always really helpful to me, but I showed her this at an earlier stage because I was having trouble figuring it out. I knew there was a movie there, but I didn’t know what it was, exactly, and she had so many great ideas and was so incisive and was such a great sounding board that I felt like she should be involved in a more official way, so that’s where the credit came from. Then she also was a producer on the movie, so she was on set; she was in the editing room; she was around for the whole ride.
And then she played Beth as well.
Yep. And then she’s in it, of course, yeah.
Florence was a really interesting character. I don’t know, you just don’t see so many female characters like hers portrayed so matter-of-factly in film; usually women are either love interests or in search of a love interest, and even though Florence has this romantic entanglement there’s more to her than that.
Right, and for most of the movie they’re not getting much out of that romantic entanglement. [laughs]
That’s for sure!
Well, she was a character I saw very clearly. I knew people like this, and it was someone I just started writing about. I was writing about her and I was writing about Greenberg, and both characters were not based on any one particular person but on behavior that I saw a lot of and on characteristics from a lot of people that I thought would be interesting in a movie. So… one of the earliest tasks for me was how to get these two people into the same movie, actually, how to get them to cross paths. I think Jennifer had the idea that Florence would be Greenberg’s brother’s personal assistant, so not only did that work a lot narratively but it informed a lot about her—like, what kind of job would this character have? I think Florence tends to put other people before herself, so the notion that she takes care of someone else’s life seemed like the right job for her.
And when she goes in for her abortion she says, at one point, “What am I doing with my life?” This relates to what I said about not seeing very many characters like her. You’re more likely to find male characters like that: in movies like Knocked Up—even Greenberg, although he doesn’t seem to regret doing nothing with his life at this point in time.
Yeah. Well, I think Florence does hit a breaking point during Greenberg. I mean, she’s there for Greenberg and in some ways is willing to put up with a lot because she sees something or is getting something from it. But I think at the point that you mention, considering the fact that she now has to take care of herself because she’s pregnant, I think she has reached a point where she’s thinking now about her own frustrations. She does a good job of rolling with the punches in life, and I think it was something I wanted the character to go through—so that she starts to take more care of her.
Speaking of which, I was just really glad to see an abortion shown onscreen without a big thing made out of her getting it. I mean, it’s a pivotal point in the movie, but it’s not treated as this huge controversial thing, and that was really great to see considering how absent abortion is from popular culture.
Yeah. I mean, I thought after the fact that it might be novel to approach it that way, but when I was writing Jennifer and I were talking about it and it just seemed…
Natural.
Yeah, it would be what this character would do. It’s… part of life.
Yeah. I mean, that’s just it. A lot of the time, even if it’s what a character would do… For example, in Juno, which I actually loved, carrying the baby to term just seemed to clash so much with what Juno would actually do. By the way, I was surprised by the lack of controversy surrounded by the abortion in Greenberg. Usually those things are pounced on immediately.
Yeah, well, maybe we’ll give it time. I don’t know. [laughter] After your interview runs… [laughs]
Oh, god, I hope I don’t jinx you!
Well, in a way, it wouldn’t be a bad debate to have.
I don’t know, I just feel like that debate is already happening everywhere. It’s nice to see abortion just come up every once in a while without a huge production being made of it.
Right. And I think if Florence were of a different economic background, or a different ethnic background, or religious background… there are so many different elements that could change the way she approaches having the abortion in the movie, but given who she is in this movie that is something that would often happen. And it’s not that it’s not a big deal for her; it’s a huge deal for her, but it’s also a part of life.
Greta Gerwig is wonderful as Florence, too.
Yeah, she really is.
And Marc Duplass, who’s worked with her a lot in the mumblecore genre, is in the film also. Was it a coincidence or was there a conscious reach out toward mumblecore on your part?
I wasn’t trying to make a statement. They were just both actors I had seen in mumblecore movies, so I came to them from those movies. But I suppose it’s somewhat of a coincidence that they both ended up in the same movie at the same time of mine. I met Marc at Sundance a few years ago when his film The Puffy Chair and my film The Squid and the Whale were there, and I just thought he’d be good in this part, so it just sort of came that way. Then Greta I’d really responded to as an actress in the movies she’d done, but she came in and auditioned a few times and auditioned with Ben and really went through the process. The truth of the matter is she was so good the first time she read that, I mean, there was no way she was not going to get this part.
Yeah. Like in the back of your mind you knew, even though you were doing the callbacks and everything.
Well, I did want to do due diligence because this was a new experience for her, and it was actually good to have her do it a few times before casting her right in the moment. But I also wanted to see her and Ben together because, as good as she was, you don’t know how two actors are going to be in the same room until you see them.
Right, of course. And the role of Greenberg was definitely a departure for Ben Stiller. There are lines of his that get laughs, but it’s not really a comedic role. It’s not surprising to me that he pulled it off effortlessly, but it’s not the way people are used to seeing him.
It’s not surprising to me either; in a way, I couldn’t think of anyone else who would be right for this role. And even though it’s not a comedic role it was important to me that whoever played it knew what was funny about it. I think, while I wanted somebody to play the part as authentically and truthfully as possible, there’s a side of it that I found very funny, and I wanted the actor to know that and be aware of it, and to have whatever other sense a comedian or even just somebody with a good sense of humor has, because I think it’s the kind of movie where humor and pain operate simultaneously. It’s not like it takes time out for one and then gives you the other; it’s all happening at the same time, which is something I also did with Jeff Daniels in The Squid and the Whale. What was great about his performance, too, was that he inhabited that character but he was also funny about it.
Right, for sure, yeah. And mixing humor and pain is definitely something you do well and that you’ve been doing for a while. When I watch your movies, generally, I go in there prepared to cringe a lot but confident that it’ll all be worth it in the end.
[laughs] Well, as long as it’s worth it.
Greenberg is currently in theatres. See it.
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