'Food, Inc.' director Robert Kenner

On the day I'm supposed to interview Robert Kenner by phone, I'm trapped in Central Park... so I head out about ten minutes before the interview to find a nice, quiet bench to sit on while I conduct the interview... and then my phone rings while I'm still getting situated, Kenner already on the other line. Two minutes later, we're talking about growth hormones and GMOs like old friends. Robert Kenner is the director of the new documentary Food, Inc., which examines the food industry and the fight that many of the big corporations put up to keep it shrouded in secrecy. It's been hailed as the film equivalent of Eric Schlosser's illuminating book Fast Food Nation, which increases the appropriateness of Schlosser's involvement with the film as a narrator. The film, however, isn't just about fast food but about the entire food industry—on which its director wants to shed as much light as possible. Enjoy the interview.

Uh… hey?
Hey, it’s Robert Kenner. I’m calling a few minutes early; is that cool?

Oh, uh… yeah, that’s totally fine. I wasn’t expecting you for another ten minutes, but that’s totally fine. We can do it now—first of all, tell me how you developed the idea that became the documentary Food, Inc.
Well, through many changes… I read Eric Schlosser’s book [Fast Food Nation] and thought that was very interesting, this idea of a world that’s become industrialized in fast food form. But then I realized that I didn’t want to make a movie about fast food, especially because Supersize Me had been out there, and I just felt like I wanted to make a film about all food. I wanted to make a film about where the food comes from. On the one hand, we’re feeding ourselves for less money than at any time in history, but we’re doing so at a really high cost and this cost is sort of hidden from us, and I thought we could have a conversation about it that could be really interesting. But, unfortunately, agribusiness was not interested in taking part in that conversation. There’s a real desire to maintain the delusion that we’re still growing food like we always have, on small farms with white picket fences and red barns, when in reality the food is coming from big factories. Mega-factories. So there was a lack of transparency that was frightening. You know, the lack of transparency was really what most concerned me, and the film started to become about that lack of transparency, which I hadn’t thought of when I began the film. So for me the most surprising thing is going to a hearing in Sacramento on whether we should label cloned meat, and the meat representative starts to explain that she thinks we should not because consumers would only be confused by having that information on the label. That gave me goosebumps! I realized that was the same thing they had said about GMOs and the growth hormones given to cows to make them produce more milk—

What’s interesting about that is that it’s a two-way issue: on the one hand, the growth hormones and the GMOs are widely known about know and they still confuse people. But at the same time it’s best that the information be out there, because then it’s up to the consumer to choose whether or not to process the information.
Well, maybe the liability comes on the person that’s producing a new product—maybe the ball’s in their court to explain why they think it’s better. I always thought, in a free market, if you have a product you think it’s better you advertise it! You don’t hide it. When you go to buy a car, they put the information on the window! Here we’re being told that it’s not good for us to know it. It’s too confusing.

You know, when Supersize Me came out it was hailed as the spiritual adaptation Fast Food Nation. Now that your film is coming out, people are saying yours might fill that role.
Well, even though Supersize Me was about fast food, it was basically about the fact that that food’s not good for you. But I think Eric’s book was about much more than that. It was really about the industrialization of the system: you know, how McDonald’s wanted to make a hamburger that was the same—and it’s not like they start out with bad intentions. Eric’s book is much more complex than Supersize Me, in a sense. It shows the evolution of how these things started to change. He talks about Carl [Karcher, founder] of Carl’s Jr., and he was a wonderful guy and you understand his journey! [Fast Food Nation] is about a number of American heroes. But, as McDonald’s started to want to have one taste worldwide, they didn’t want to buy meat from fifty producers; they wanted to buy from two or three so they could get uniformity. It’s this uniformity and efficiency and so on, this cheapness, that has ended up producing lots of calories at very inexpensive costs—which is a great thing. But unfortunately the food has become a lot less nutritious, and ultimately there’s come a great cost to this “low-cost” food. One example: when I was a kid, food cost 18% of our paycheck. Today food costs 9%, so that’s great. But when I was a kid healthcare cost 5% of our paycheck and today it costs 18%. And I think there’s a direct correlation. Somebody might say there’s no connection—

I think that’s ridiculous to say, considering how important nutrition is for health.
You know, the Greeks used to say, “Let food be your medicine and let medicine be your food.” There’s a total connection. And one third of Americans born after the year 2000 will have early-onset diabetes, and that’s going to affect our healthcare system.

Wait, it’s adult-onset diabetes that they’ll have, right?
Well, they changed the name to early-onset—

Type II.
Yeah. Type II.

I thought early-onset was type I.
Well, no, the other one is “early-onset” now, basically, because kids have started to get it. This has only happened since the advent of fast food! It’s a phenomenon that’s brand-new, and it comes with the fact that we’re eating more calories and the food is less nutritious so we don’t need to be eating more calories. And the calories—this is where we need to connect the dots—are being subsidized by the federal government. It’s corn and soy that are in 90% of the additives, so we’re subsidizing a food that is making us sick.

And in terms of being aware of what you’re eating—I mean, I live in NYC. And, although you don’t get the full nutritional value, I believe it is mandated by the city for food chains to list the calorie count. And I only recently discovered that it wasn’t that way in other states and cities, and I was shocked.
New York City has one of the best health commissioners, if not the best—Thomas Frieden—and he’s now going to become CDC under Obama.

Excellent!
And Bloomberg is really excellent on these issues. He’s great on health issues, and one thing I’ve realized is that this issue cuts across ideological boundaries. You don’t have to be a Democrat or a Republican to want healthy food. And the one thing I’ve realized—it’s going to be led by consumers that are going to be able to change the system. So we’re just going to have to demand it. We vote three times a day: at breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and we— [there is the noise of an airplane flying overhead] Hey, we’re probably sitting next to each other in the Central Park area.

I’m sorry?
I’m in Central Park. Where are you?

I’m in Central Park!
You know, I did this once where I was literally sitting right next to the person I was being interviewed by! [laughs] I’m at Seventy-Second on the West Side.

I’m on the West Side too, by the Great Lawn!
[laughs] You know, because I heard the airplane!

I was waiting on line this morning for Shakespeare in the Park tickets, and I didn’t have time to get home, so I had to find a quiet bench…
Yeah, that’s where I’m at. So—anyway! [laughs] I actually have to go in a few moments. Do you have any other questions?

Yeah, actually—I thought it would be interesting to hear what your take is on—well, obviously the really big food lobbyists, the meat and dairy industries and so on, seek to overplay the importance of those foods. But at the same time you also get books like Skinny Bitch and other diet books claiming dairy isn’t helpful at all and is even harmful. So I was wondering where you fell on this.
Well—listen, I think what we’re ultimately talking about is we need transparency in this industry. We need to know what’s in our food and we need to be able to make decisions on our own. And I think the more we know how much there are hidden costs in our food system, the more we’re going to want to change it. And in parallel to the fight against tobacco, we’re going up against big corporations—and in tobacco’s case they put out false information about the health of their product. And I think if people start to find out about the health of the subsidized processed foods that we’re paying for in a number of ways, then we’re going to start becoming more demanding. You know, one of the things that’s really interesting is that consumers have more power than they think they have. You’ve got to tell people, you know, “Start getting involved!” Because when we meet with people while we’re screening this film, they say they’re ready to go follow a movement. And they want to change things too. And I feel like change is a real growing movement that we’re going to be part of.

Food, Inc. is currently out in the U.S. in limited release. For more information about the film, visit its official website.